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Urgent, Mousey Bloated Golf Ball Like Swelling

I know what it sounds like but it's certainly not a pregnancy, the mouse in question is my little boy Pecan who I had neutered just after he impregnated my little girl Cashew. So i know for a fact he is a boy.

But the very worry thing is tonight he looks pregnant, distended from his chest downwards like he's swallowed a golf ball. And it's soft to the touch, he doesn't seem to mind me poking him about either but he has always been the kindest and sweetest temper of any mouse I've had. So it's hard to say if it could be sore for him.

Other than the fact he looks ridiculously swollen, he is acting perfectly normal, eating the treats I offer him and coming out for food at dinner time. 

I am very worried though, what could this be? 
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Comments

  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    It could be a number of things Georgia. One would be a tumour (but if he isn't acing in pain I doubt it), it could be a small tumour blocking something making him gassy. It might also be an upset stomach causing a gassy build up or it might even be a build up of fluids for some reason. You could try him on a prebiotic yoghurt just now which may help a little but a vet visit might be worthwhile. I can't remember what my vet prescribed for my boys who had the golf ball look and had gassy stomachs - sorry :( But the yoghurts did help  - a tiny bit of strawberry actimel went down a treat with them and it did help alongwith the medicine. I really can't remember what it was though - I will ty going through my records and checking for you but I won't manage until tomorrow. I hope he is ok ((hugs))
  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 936
    I haven't got anything to add to Zany's advice but I just wanted to say I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll be ok.
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    What age is he Baggy? I`ve only ever seen this `golf ball` type swelling in older males and it can be caused by ascites (fluid build up) due to heart or organ failure, although a vet would have to decide really what was going on if they know enough about mice. It could be a reaction to something he`s eaten that has caused a gassy build up. Some fruits like pear/apple can cause this apparently, but if his diet hasn`t changed or you havn`t fed him anything seriously different, I`m not sure what would cause this acute bloating. Keep an eye on this and if he seems tired or listless/slow, it may be worth seeing your vet as he may be able to prescribe something to reduce the bloating, but as with all things, you don`t know if it will have a desired effect. x
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    I had a text from Georgia this morning - he's still doing well. We discovered that Pecan is the dad to the girls I got from Georgia - and little Tilly did the "golf ball" look a few weeks ago. It appeared very suddenly and disappeared within 48 hours, so Georgia and I are now wondering if it's perhaps a family issue or maybe even a genetic food intolerance. Tilly was absolutely fine in herself, running around as normal, stuffing herself on certain parts of the food mix she really likes and it just seems a bit of a coincidence that Pecan has ended up the same way. Georgia and I are going to keep an eye on them and hopefully she will update us as to how he is getting on.
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    Fingers crossed for both Pecan and little Tilly. Abdominal swelling can be a concern but it may just be bloat related. Male mice can get penile prolapse when a large abdomen happens so watch his pee and genital area if the welling doesn`t reduce. x
  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    Peeks is not going to live much longer. He is struggling to breathe now with the huge swelling on his tummy. The vet hasn't a clue. I think i'm going to travel a little further out to try go to a more experience mousey vet, possibly Primrose Mouse Rescue's vet, I know they are very experienced with mice.

    But anyway, Pecan has had Aves probiotics in his water everyday and he only looks worse. Im very upset, he is such a sweetheart. If this was penile prolapse, how would it be treated?




    :|
  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 936
    Usually a penile prolapse means it is hanging out. Treatment normally involves a gel or lubricant of some sort.
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    edited January 2016 Posts: 1,200

    That`s right, the penis would be seen outside the sheath Baggy but if that`s not the case, the bloating sounds to me like organ failure, the heart moreso, but fluid builds up as a result. To be honest, if he`s struggling, it might be best to see the vet honey. What a shame, he sounds lovely. :(  I`ve seen this affect a few of the males I had and I broke my heart. Did the vet even listen to his chest or give you any clues? I know vets don`t see many pet mice but given the symptoms mirror those of larger animals, it should be a case of treating like with like. x

    ETA: Sorry, meant to say that KY Jelly from any chemist is the best lubricant for penile prolapse if he has one.

    Gently rub some onto the genitalia but make sure any hard plugs have been removed to allow urination. These plugs can be like rocks, but when warmed up with a cotton pad and warm water, they usually pull out and look like a tadpole with a little tail. It`s just the shape they form as they turn hard when the semen hits the air. Is he peeing okay? x

  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    Oh ok, it's definitely not penile prolapse.

    I've been to a different vet this morning who said that it was one of two things (three but we've ruled out gas now) 1. Heart Disease or 2. Tumours. Either way my cheeky Peeky isn't looking good. I've been given a diuretic to help him pass whatever fluid is building up and hopefully ease the pressure on him, but once he stops being interested in his food, I will take him to the vets. 

    Terribly sad being a mouse mummy, they just don't live long enough and suffer from so much illness.
    :(
  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 936
    I'm sorry that it isn't better news, you're right it can be heart breaking being a mouse mummy.
  • Posts: 529
    I'm sorry you've had such bad news from the vet :(
    Currently one of two pet-humans of some hamsters (syrian, roborovski, chinese and russian hybrid), mice, mongolian gerbils and a duprasi :)
  • NickyNicky Mouse
    Posts: 815
    Really sorry to hear this.
  • NuttySianNuttySian Mouse
    Posts: 214
    Sorry to hear this :(
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    :( I'm really sorry Georgia :( I've been keeping my fingers crossed for Pecan :( I hope that the medicines make him more comfortable for however long he has with you (and I'm sending you hugs xx)
  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    Thank you everybody. Its horrible because one minute he was totally fine the next hes got a limited number of days left! I do hope its not a hereditary problem though. I know Roz you have a few of his babies and i have some. Fingers crossed whatever it is doesnt affect them too. Peeky is only 1 year 6 months!

    Xxxx
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    The diuretic should help somewhat although it`s difficult to say how it works well in a mouse. Did the vet give you an actual dose to give orally Baggy using a syringe or did he say just sprinkle it on food? Don`t know if it`s liquid or powder form? x
  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    Its in liquid form and she said to give "a drop" with "a drop of ribena" three times daily. No actual dose but i have a syringe. Im sure vets think its super easy to medicate mice!!
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    If it tastes okay he should take it although I`m not sure mice like Ribena? Might be better to add it to a soft piece of tea biscuit or paste or something you find he loves if you have issues giving it in Ribena but if he likes the Ribena then stick with that. x
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631

    Its in liquid form and she said to give "a drop" with "a drop of ribena" three times daily. No actual dose but i have a syringe. Im sure vets think its super easy to medicate mice!!

    :P Mine normally apologise and say "we are prescribing the super accurate dose of however small you can make it this time again" :P I hope that it helps Pecan though, I really do. I'm keeping everything crossed for him x
  • NuttySianNuttySian Mouse
    edited January 2016 Posts: 214
    zany_toon said:

    Its in liquid form and she said to give "a drop" with "a drop of ribena" three times daily. No actual dose but i have a syringe. Im sure vets think its super easy to medicate mice!!

    :P Mine normally apologise and say "we are prescribing the super accurate dose of however small you can make it this time again" :P I hope that it helps Pecan though, I really do. I'm keeping everything crossed for him x
    Haha, similar here! It really is ridiculous to work out for a mouse, it was bad enough working out that one of our Syrians needed only 0.03ml of something!


    I hope it helps too xx
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    NuttySian said:

    zany_toon said:

    Its in liquid form and she said to give "a drop" with "a drop of ribena" three times daily. No actual dose but i have a syringe. Im sure vets think its super easy to medicate mice!!

    :P Mine normally apologise and say "we are prescribing the super accurate dose of however small you can make it this time again" :P I hope that it helps Pecan though, I really do. I'm keeping everything crossed for him x
    Haha, similar here! It really is ridiculous to work out for a mouse, it was bad enough working out that one of our Syrians needed only 0.03ml of something!


    I hope it helps too xx
    Laura, the mouse expert vet, worked out that some of the medications she's prescribed had a dose of 1/1000th of a tablet for a mouse. Given that some of the tablets are only 1 mg doses I think I would have needed a microscope to count the individual grains if I wanted to dose it accurately :P Fun and games :P
  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    Wow that really is crazy small doses. Has anyone had experience with overdosing and what those symptoms may look like? I imagine its easy to do because of the small doses. Id like to be aware though. Just in case
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    Isn`t it crazy that mice are used so much in medical research, yet when it comes to saving THEIR lives, medications are limited? x
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631

    Wow that really is crazy small doses. Has anyone had experience with overdosing and what those symptoms may look like? I imagine its easy to do because of the small doses. Id like to be aware though. Just in case

    I've had it happen four times, the first time I lost all my mice because the mite treatment got into their central nervous system and caused them to fit to death :( The second time it was with an injection of an antidepressant (and I can't remember the name of it!) for Perky and Pinky who had OCD scratching (this was before it was diagnosed as being Cushings) and the pair of them bounced around the cage as if they were on speed!! They could hardly sit down and were a little jerky but I'd been told that this would wear off if the dose was too much. We ended up resorting to a vial of the same medication that is administered anally in dogs :-* The active dose was a lot less in that than was in the pure, injectable form and it meant they could get a tiny drop. The third and fourth time it happened it was with a shop bought, very common small animal mite treatment spray. My mice started trembling and shaking within 5 minutes of me using the product and the second I saw it I washed them under warm, running water to get as much off their skin as possible. They took a while to recover and were still a little shakey afterwards but I did notice it not being as bad after washing them off. I no longer use any product by that company as their cat and dog products have commonly caused these side effects as well and there have been several deaths as a result :(

    As for what to look for in terms of overdosing and how to treat it, I've found it's best to ask each time I get a new treatment. A lot of the medications react differently depending on how they work, and some can be sorted out at home whereas others need immediate veterinary care if an overdose does happen. Sometimes though there isn't anything that you can do, but at least you can know what you are getting into going in. I faced that with Perky - we weren't sure if it was Cushings and the medication for it would have killed him if he didn't have the condition. We'd tried everything else though so it was either try it and chance him dying or have him pts. Thankfully it worked that time, but there have been other times where two opposite conditions showed in similar ways and treating either could have killed the furball in question :( I think sometimes you have to weigh up the chances of the overdose and risks of the medications against what you see happening to your furball if you don't :( In saying that, I've found mice in particular seem to cope really well with higher doses of most things. Laura and the vets have commented on it as well - one of my mice was getting regular injections for something (I can't remember what now) and the injection lasted for only 4 days...but the equivalent dose in a dog lasted four weeks!! Laura has commented that with mice they use the drugs so quickly that they often cope with a lot higher dose than other mammals would.
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    I used Baytril for a long time at low doses before my vet had a eureka moment and suggested that we dose it at least, twice a day. On the `one drop a day` schedule it was doing nothing and a waste of time and money. I got so fed up going back to the vet just getting the same advice. Thankfully, when the dosage was given more often, my mice`s respiratory issues did improve and respond to the drug, which was gratifying. I`m more trusting of Baytril now but don`t have any mice! :-<
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    Baggy, I was watching a medical programme last night (GP`s behind closed doors - Channel 5) and a man came in who had abdominal bloating (he was an alcoholic) and the GP told him it was his liver causing the fluid build up, causing the bloat. I always thought fluid build up had something to do with the liver but it does seem likely that this is what`s happening to Pecan. Something you can run past your vet? It can also be called Ascites, meaning fluid build up. Baytril is an antibiotic so....figure that one out! Although I`m not sure liver failure is anything curable anyway, but perhaps a diuretic could help in some form or other to relive the fluid? Again, your vet would need to look at that and make an informed decision. Hope this helps though. x
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    How is Pecan doing, Georgia? I have had my fingers crossed :(
  • BaggyMousersBaggyMousers Mouse
    Posts: 215
    My cheeky Pecan is still managing very well actually. He is huge, but he still eats and wanders round the entire cage (i have no idea how) 

    Yes April, my vet actually has prescribed me a Diuretic so it could possibly be what is keeping him from getting too massive. It won't prevent the problem but it is certainly extending his life at least a little! Though its a real pain to get him to take it three times a day!! I have to settle for once in the morning once in the evening.


    XXXX
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,200
    That`s good. My first male mouse had this near his old age and it broke my heart. You just feel helpless to do anything. Monitor how he`s doing and have a feel of his tummy. Check his poo as well and also, his privates in case he has any issues with penile prolapse or problems urinating. x
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    I'm glad he is still coping Georgia :) Despite his size it must be nice to see that he is still enjoying himself :) I always think that's the hardest part, seeing them not enjoying things. It doesn't sound like he is a fan of the diuretic though if he won't take it with a treat three times a day :P
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