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No Increase in Size or Weight

zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
edited January 2016 in Health
Sorry for the lack of updates on the babies everyone, but it's actually because I've been a bit worried. The little boy - Krispie - seems to have stopped gaining weight and growing over the last few days :( The group are getting loads of good food to try and help them grow, the protein levels are really up, and both the baby girls are growing. In fact, the runt of the litter is now bigger than her brother. He used to be the biggest of the three babies :( Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could cause this, or what else I could use to try and help him out? They are currently getting loads of extra healthy seeds, egg biscuits, nuts, malt paste etc. and tomorrow I'm going to try and get EMP from PAH and baby food from Tesco to try and help - I'm also going to call and see if Laura the vet is on shift at some point this week and get her input with her having bred litters previously. I'm really worried, I've lost two of Krispie's relatives in less than a week to the same thing :( I think they are full relatives to the babies and their mum, but Crackle (one of the boys) and Diamante (the girl I hadn't come up with a name for when I posted about them) developed blockages in their intestines that got worse despite being given loads of oil that should have helped clear it and they passed away. I'm really, really concerned that it might be something genetic that could be showing in Kripsie but I don't know what :(Has anyone had a formerly big baby suddenly end up slowing down compared to the others in a litter and had it work out ok? I'm praying that I'm worrying over nothing and that he is a slow grower compared to the girls but still, losing his aunt and uncle has me really concerned :(

Comments

  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 962
    Oh gosh, I don't really know what to suggest. What about some of that probiotic yogurt?
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,229
    Stunted growth can be due to a lack of certain things Roz but I would need to go away and do some research. How is he generally in terms of fitness? Is he nibbling on the food and not acting slow or as if something isn`t quite right? You are giving them plenty of good nutrition so I can`t see that being a problem. Your probably doing more than the average breeder would! Carbohydrates like pasta and slow release energy foods like plain porridge might help. If he`s doing okay otherwise he may just need time to catch up, but he may have a genetic reason for being small. x
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    edited January 2016 Posts: 255
    .....hmm, could you give milk from a syringe or baby formula? On top of everything else of course.....  ;;) *scratches head* I will do some digging online for you. :)

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    Posts: 255
    "Runt pups: Very small, poorly developing pups usually indicate a genetic abnormality, or competitive disadvantage. In very large litters or if the dam is a poor milk producer, supportive care with soft dough or gel diets may provide sufficient support for runts to catch up to normal mice."

    Another place said you could feed kitten milk to mice that were orphaned, but I don't see why you couldn't use this as a supplement too....maybe just try  giving extra food whenever you can, and weigh like every 3-5 days? I know hamsters can have cheese, tofu and chicken as supplements....and egg adds calories to the diet, which might be the issue? Was it a really big litter? Are they still getting mum's milk? Sorry  I couldn't be of more help!! But best of luck x

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Thanks everyone :( I didn't manage to contact the vet tonight as I was running so late from work :(

    I hadn't thought of probiotics Ann, so I've picked some up from PAH and will order the beter Dr Squiggles ones from ratrations to see if that helps.

    April, he's probably the fittest of the babies. He's a lot more active than the others and reacts to things very quickly. His responses are good and he's very inquisitive. I haven't seen him or the other two babies eating in the last few days and they are too pingy for me to encourage them to eat from my hands, but they do seem to have full bellies and are defecating as normal :( I hadn't thought of porridge so will try that and I bought EMP and some baby food tonight which is in their cage as I type. If it's something genetic causing this I'm really concerned as even small mice I've had before from the other accidental litters have continued growing :(

    Kawaii, thanks for doing some digging online. WHat gets me though is that he wasn't the runt originally, he was the largest baby :( Their mum culled the liter down to just three and she's spent huge amounts of time feeding them and up until they stopped feeding from her he seemed to be growing. He doesn't seem to have grown at all since but I can't be sure as I've only been weighing him for the last 3 days when I convinced myself that I wasn't just being paranoid :( I will try adding some plain chicken and cooked eggs as you suggested just to see if it helps :(

    On Sunday the weights of the babies were as follows:
    Half toed girl was 11g
    Former runty girl was 10g
    Krispie was 9g

    Monday night:
    Half toed girl was 13g
    Former runty girl was 11g
    Krispie was 9g

    Tonight:
    Half toed girl is 15g
    Former runty girl is 13g
    Krispie...is still exactly 9g :(

    The girls have put on half their own body weight since Sunday night, they look like little mouse shaped sumo wrestlers now compared to Krispie :(
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    I had a chance to go into the vet's this morning as the person I visit for work related things cancelled me at their door. Although Laura the vet wasn't in, Pauline the nurse phoned to ask her about Krispie so that I didn't need to wait until the end of next week when she would be on again. The news isn't good :( Laura is of the opinion that - although it's unusual for it not to be a runt affected - that Krispie has a liver shunt Which means that his blood supply is missing out his liver because the blood vessels haven't closed off and grown in the areas they should have after he was born and as a result his body isn't storing the things it needs from his food to help him use them when needed to grow and he will probably not be able to filter out the toxins in his blood properly. While this is the most likely option, it's not the only one but none of them are treatable and all of them are bad :( I've been informed that Krispie is unlikely to have a long life and that it is very likely he will be unhealthy, he's likely to end up needing palliative care and help to the bridge. Again, we don't know for sure and it might be something else entirely, and Krispie might just suddenly grow and end up as a normal small mouse. It's hard to tell at this stage. it is however almost unheard of for a baby mouse of his age not to be putting on daily weight. Or not put on weight at least every other day :( On the bright side, he has put on a whole gramme overnight :) So I'm going to be grateful for this small improvement and keep Krispie happy for as long as he is here :) If he stays really small though there are a whole load of other issues to go with that - I'll post them in a separate thread. And I will update photos over the weekend, I'm just needing to go and spend some time with them and try not to worry about what all this might mean for him :(
  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 962
    Oh no, that's depressing news but a glimmer of hope with the gramme he's put on. Come on Krispie, pull through!
    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,229
    I would give him the benefit of the doubt and just treat him as though he was normal anyway Roz if this is suspected rather than diagnosed. He`s lively and enjoying life otherwise. I probably wouldn`t neuter him though given his size. If he is to have a short life, he may as well enjoy it. x
    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Sorry I haven't updated anyone since I posted this last week, things haven't been good here :(

    On the bright side, little Krispie has put on a whole gramme since I last posted and is now a staggering :P 12g. his two sisters are more than double his size now, and Penny (the stumpy footed girl) is almost the same size as her mum so they make Krispie look even smaller now. He is being removed from his family this Friday - I left him in an extra week so that he didn't have to fend for himself and so that he had the help from his mum a little longer. He is such a friendly little boy :) He comes running to get up for a cuddle :\"> I'm sorry that I haven't uploaded photos in more than a week, I promise loads of photo spam in the next few days - I've just not had a chance to upload them due to the ill furbabies :(
  • Posts: 529
    I'm glad they're all doing relatively well considering. Thought I'd posted on this thread ages ago, sorry for not doing so! I'm sorry things haven't been good but I hope it all improves soon. I hope Krispie copes better than you expect when he leaves Mum and his sisters, he sounds like a lovely little guy :)
    Currently one of two pet-humans of some hamsters (syrian, roborovski, chinese and russian hybrid), mice, mongolian gerbils and a duprasi :)
    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,229
    Glad to hear little Krispie is putting on some weight Roz. Hope the others havn`t been too taxing health-wise. x
    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    Posts: 255
    Aww I'm sorry about the suspected liver issues. Poor little guy! Still, I'm sure he'll be well-spoiled won't he?! And one gramme, while it's not much, is a least something. 

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Thanks everyone :) Krispie increased to 13g and seems to be staying put at that weight and size. He looks like a two week old baby compared to his sisters, who are now almost the same size as their mum!! He is so friendly though, and I introduced him to Mercury today as poor Mercury was really depressed after losing his friend Fozzie last week. Mercury is over the moon with his tiny little friendly (they are an odd pair - Krispie is 13g and Mercury is 82g, Krispie can actually hide underneath Mercury and there is no way of knowing he is there until he pokes his nose out from under him.) I have photos and videos, but I am afraid these will need to wait, I have exhausted the battery on my camera/phone using the flashlight feature to look for the missing mouse :(
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    Posts: 255
    zany_toon said:

    Thanks everyone :) Krispie increased to 13g and seems to be staying put at that weight and size. He looks like a two week old baby compared to his sisters, who are now almost the same size as their mum!! He is so friendly though, and I introduced him to Mercury today as poor Mercury was really depressed after losing his friend Fozzie last week. Mercury is over the moon with his tiny little friendly (they are an odd pair - Krispie is 13g and Mercury is 82g, Krispie can actually hide underneath Mercury and there is no way of knowing he is there until he pokes his nose out from under him.) I have photos and videos, but I am afraid these will need to wait, I have exhausted the battery on my camera/phone using the flashlight feature to look for the missing mouse :(

    Ooh yes we need pics of that - sounds adorable. Hope your missing mouse turns up....:(

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

    Thanked by 1zany_toon
  • Posts: 529
    Awwww... Krispie and Mercury sound adorable together! I hope they stay this happy together :)
    Currently one of two pet-humans of some hamsters (syrian, roborovski, chinese and russian hybrid), mice, mongolian gerbils and a duprasi :)
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Kawaii said:

    zany_toon said:


    Ooh yes we need pics of that - sounds adorable. Hope your missing mouse turns up....:(


    I will try my best to get photos of them doing that :)

    Awwww... Krispie and Mercury sound adorable together! I hope they stay this happy together :)

    Thank you :) And I'm hoping the same, Mercury absolutely craves company and dotes on his new buddies :)
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