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Food?

HI! It's the new kid on the block. A long story short, I'm trying to figure out if "Science Selective Rat" is ok for mice. It sounds like a good food, protein is 12% (min) and it doesn't have any corn. Here is the full ingredients:

Whole wheat, soybean meal, whole barley, whole oats, dried apples, dried blackcurrants, wheat middlings, ground limestone, soybean oil, wheat flour, monocalcium phosphate, DL-methionine, L-lysine, salt, choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin E supplement, cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), manganese oxide, zinc oxide, iron sulfate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), thiamine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), copper sulfate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), calcium iodate, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein (min.) 12.0%, Crude fat (min.) 3.0%, Crude fiber (max.) 6.0%, Moisture (max.) 11.0%, Calcium (min.) 0.5%, Phosphorus (min.) 0.3%, Vitamin A (min.) 10000 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 (min.) 1000 IU/kg, Vitamin E (min.) 50 IU/kg

Soooooo.... any thoughts? I would be supplementing with a seed mix as well.

Comments

  • AnnBAnnB Mouse
    Posts: 962
    I've never tried the "Science Selective Rat" but I don't see why it shouldn't be OK. I have used the "Science Selective Mouse" and I must admit most of my mice preferred a loose muesli mix rather than those extruded biscuits but they were happier when I broke the biscuits into smaller pieces for them.
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,228

    It should be fine. As Ann said, Supreme do a mouse version too so either would do. Mice do love seed mixes though so perhaps you could feed them a mix that contains millet seeds and grains and break a few of the selective biscuits up for them also? They would probably do better on a variety than just a complete biscuit form of food. Burges do a dwarf hamster food that could be used for mice but the protein will be that bit higher. It contains the mixed millets, maize etc....


    The reason I mention the dwarf hamster mix is because there are not many `mouse` mixes on the market but generally mixes for rats, which mice can eat though.

  • Meece17Meece17 Lemming
    Posts: 34
    Thanks! I'm relieved it's the best food I can find in the US, most of them are pretty high in protein:( I will be supplementing with a seed mix as I know it could get pretty boring for him! 
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    edited March 2016 Posts: 255
    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    edited March 2016 Posts: 631
    Science selective rat is a pretty good food:) I would add in a few bits and pieces toraise the protein content slightly (after mice are finished growing they do best witha protein level between 13 and 15%) to putit in the lower end of the safe range for mice. 12% is just a little bit low, but not too far off the safe range for mice. I use it as part of my mouse mix and my mice really seem to like the science selective bits. Mice and rats have very similar nutritional requirements so in most cases you an use the same food and just add in little bits.

    (Just looked online - according to Supreme petfoods who make the Science Selective rat food the protein content is 14% and the other nutritional values are the same as in the SS mouse food. Is the information you posted from a packet that you bought or did you find it online? If you get it and it's at the 14% range for protein I would add some things that have lower protein in them to bring it down to around the 13% or 13.5% mark which is a middle of the road protein level for most mice. A variety of grains could do this, or some seeds as long as they aren't really, really high in protein.)


    Kawaii said:

    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    I wouldn't recommend hamster food for mice. The protein levels are a lot higher than most mice need and could lead to hotspots (which can be almost impossible to get rid of) and the levels of nutrients, vitamins, minerals will be different as well. If some one were to use this as a base for a mouse food mix I would hope that they would do a great deal of research before doing so as they may potentially be causing a lot of health problems. Small amounts on an occasional basis might be ok - I give my mice a tiny drop of my hamster mix every so often as a treat - but I wouldn't recommend using hamster food solely or as a base for mouse food.
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    Posts: 255
    zany_toon said:


    Kawaii said:

    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    I wouldn't recommend hamster food for mice. The protein levels are a lot higher than most mice need and could lead to hotspots (which can be almost impossible to get rid of) and the levels of nutrients, vitamins, minerals will be different as well. If some one were to use this as a base for a mouse food mix I would hope that they would do a great deal of research before doing so as they may potentially be causing a lot of health problems. Small amounts on an occasional basis might be ok - I give my mice a tiny drop of my hamster mix every so often as a treat - but I wouldn't recommend using hamster food solely or as a base for mouse food.
    Hotspots? Also, why do they need so fewer nutrients? Sorry lol.

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,228
    I tend not to worry too much about levels of this and that in the mixes although you wouldn`t want too high protein for a maintenance diet or for older mice. Youngsters benefit from higher protein though. What you could do is just add a millet mix sold for caged birds like mixed millet seed sold for canaries/budgies. If your in the US you probably wouldn`t be able to get the Burgess foods anyway although I could be wrong. In the UK we have a generally good variety of food mixes for small animals, although generally, they can be similar in ingredients which is frustrating. The only way to buy something different and better quality is to buy from a website called Zooplus.co.uk which are German based a sell JR Farm food mixes which are superior to what we can buy in a shop.
  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Kawaii said:

    zany_toon said:


    Kawaii said:

    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    I wouldn't recommend hamster food for mice. The protein levels are a lot higher than most mice need and could lead to hotspots (which can be almost impossible to get rid of) and the levels of nutrients, vitamins, minerals will be different as well. If some one were to use this as a base for a mouse food mix I would hope that they would do a great deal of research before doing so as they may potentially be causing a lot of health problems. Small amounts on an occasional basis might be ok - I give my mice a tiny drop of my hamster mix every so often as a treat - but I wouldn't recommend using hamster food solely or as a base for mouse food.
    Hotspots? Also, why do they need so fewer nutrients? Sorry lol.


    Hotspots are areas of skin that start to itch and a mouse will scratch at. They can be caused by numerous things, including too much protein. The mouse often ends up scratching most of the layers of skin off and leaving the area red raw and infections can set in leading to more itching. It's a very painful condition and once the mouse starts it can be really hard to get them to stop. Even if you do manage to get them to stop it often comes back.

    And I didn't say they need fewer nutrients - they need different levels of nutrients ( I had said in my post above that the levels in the hamster food would be different)  -  in the same way that a cat would need different levels of nutrients, vitamins and minerals to a dog, hedgehog, or any other animal based on what their metabolism and body systems need.  Feeding a food that doesn't give the right levels of these things can cause health issues in a huge variety of ways. Every type of animal has a different requirement for these things, and those requirements are very specific :)
  • KawaiiKawaii Lemming
    Posts: 255


    zany_toon said:

    Kawaii said:

    zany_toon said:


    Kawaii said:

    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    I wouldn't recommend hamster food for mice. The protein levels are a lot higher than most mice need and could lead to hotspots (which can be almost impossible to get rid of) and the levels of nutrients, vitamins, minerals will be different as well. If some one were to use this as a base for a mouse food mix I would hope that they would do a great deal of research before doing so as they may potentially be causing a lot of health problems. Small amounts on an occasional basis might be ok - I give my mice a tiny drop of my hamster mix every so often as a treat - but I wouldn't recommend using hamster food solely or as a base for mouse food.
    Hotspots? Also, why do they need so fewer nutrients? Sorry lol.


    Hotspots are areas of skin that start to itch and a mouse will scratch at. They can be caused by numerous things, including too much protein. The mouse often ends up scratching most of the layers of skin off and leaving the area red raw and infections can set in leading to more itching. It's a very painful condition and once the mouse starts it can be really hard to get them to stop. Even if you do manage to get them to stop it often comes back.

    And I didn't say they need fewer nutrients - they need different levels of nutrients ( I had said in my post above that the levels in the hamster food would be different)  -  in the same way that a cat would need different levels of nutrients, vitamins and minerals to a dog, hedgehog, or any other animal based on what their metabolism and body systems need.  Feeding a food that doesn't give the right levels of these things can cause health issues in a huge variety of ways. Every type of animal has a different requirement for these things, and those requirements are very specific :)
    Bleugh, yeah, messy wording there - thank you for clarifying that. Rather stupidly I always presumed mice were pretty much the same food wise as hams but never really stopped to think about it. :-*

    Proud owner of 2 chinchillas and a dwarf hamster

    (chins for the win!)

     If I'm not active I have probably forgotten my password (again)....

  • zany_toonzany_toon Mouse
    Posts: 631
    Kawaii said:


    zany_toon said:

    Kawaii said:

    zany_toon said:


    Kawaii said:

    12% is not much, but I've never had mice, and know next to nothing.... I thought someone on here said they could have Science Selective Dwarf Hamster though - that's 17.5% protein? Although again there's not much variety despite the good stats. I add lots of stuff in for the hams.

    I wouldn't recommend hamster food for mice. The protein levels are a lot higher than most mice need and could lead to hotspots (which can be almost impossible to get rid of) and the levels of nutrients, vitamins, minerals will be different as well. If some one were to use this as a base for a mouse food mix I would hope that they would do a great deal of research before doing so as they may potentially be causing a lot of health problems. Small amounts on an occasional basis might be ok - I give my mice a tiny drop of my hamster mix every so often as a treat - but I wouldn't recommend using hamster food solely or as a base for mouse food.
    Hotspots? Also, why do they need so fewer nutrients? Sorry lol.


    Hotspots are areas of skin that start to itch and a mouse will scratch at. They can be caused by numerous things, including too much protein. The mouse often ends up scratching most of the layers of skin off and leaving the area red raw and infections can set in leading to more itching. It's a very painful condition and once the mouse starts it can be really hard to get them to stop. Even if you do manage to get them to stop it often comes back.

    And I didn't say they need fewer nutrients - they need different levels of nutrients ( I had said in my post above that the levels in the hamster food would be different)  -  in the same way that a cat would need different levels of nutrients, vitamins and minerals to a dog, hedgehog, or any other animal based on what their metabolism and body systems need.  Feeding a food that doesn't give the right levels of these things can cause health issues in a huge variety of ways. Every type of animal has a different requirement for these things, and those requirements are very specific :)
    Bleugh, yeah, messy wording there - thank you for clarifying that. Rather stupidly I always presumed mice were pretty much the same food wise as hams but never really stopped to think about it. :-*
    It's not stupid that you assumed it at all - it's what pet shops and a lot of "knowledgeable people" tell us. I used to feed mine a "hamster, mouse, gerbil food" until I read into it after speaking to some one online who mentioned how dangerous it could be :) I hope I didn't make you feel bad :(
  • racingmouseracingmouse Mouse
    Posts: 1,228

    I`m highly sceptical about these analytical balances depending on the species, be them mice. hamsters, gerbils or rats. Typically, they will have very similar ingredients like corn, millets, extruded biscuits, wheat, flaked grains etc.... then you have the analysis of protein, oils, fibre etc... but many of these mixes are never fully consumed, so when we consider this, the animal isn`t really getting that full benefit from the mix, but removing the pieces they want. Most of us see this with the mixes we buy and usually end up finding that the mix is boring and requires adding to. Blending two mixes throws this balance out the window anyway, so I believe it`s better to feed variety and try to balance that, rather than be too focussed on how much protein is within the food itself. Obviously the protein content needs to be lower for mice, but that`s easily done by choosing foods that are fairly low anyway and making changes throught where necessary.


    I have a Russian dwarf hamster now and havn`t kept mice for a while, but generally I feed him what he enjoys rather than stick to protocol. If I had mice again, I would be looking at the JR Farm mouse foods, but it also wouldn`t put me off looking at the Burgess Dwarf hamster food either as it contains mainly canary seed and a few other bits and pieces. Mixes together, it would be a guess as to what the eventual proteins would be, but I`m willing to bet that they wouldn`t cause any more harm than feeding one mix on it`s own. That`s just my own take on this really.

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